Yves right here. Although the dangers of nuclear conflict are rising, with America’s new belligerence and Israel having over-extended itself whereas remaining decided to subdue Iran among the many elevated dangers, most need to avert their eyes from this risk to humanity and a variety of life on this planet. As an illustration, Tucker Carlson had an prolonged dialogue with an skilled on what a nuclear conflict would produce, which was extremely informative if additionally predictably deeply disturbing. But it bought just one million views, which is gentle for one among his interviews. I encourage you to take the time to look at it.
It’s a measure of their madness that leaders around the globe are severely contemplating nuclear conflict. Ivana Hughes of Columbia on what that may imply.
(0:00) How Highly effective Are Nuclear Weapons?
(9:46) What Would Occur if a Nuke Detonated Over Instances Sq.?
(19:53) What Is… pic.twitter.com/Thux3JLtgE— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) October 17, 2025
On a joint presentation by Theanalysis.information and The Manner Ahead: Regenerative Conversations, Paul Jay talks with Dr. John Izzo and Alain Gauthier concerning the dangers of nuclear conflict, offering a historic perspective knowledgeable by Jay’s lengthy relationship with Daniel Ellsberg.
Initially revealed at Theanalysis.information
That is an auto-generated model of the transcript. An edited model can be arriving shortly.
Dr John Izzo
There are three issues that may finish life on Earth as we all know it for humanity. Two are within the information on a regular basis, however the third one, a risk that’s been round for 70 years, is sort of by no means talked about, however we should speak about it. The primary is local weather change and the destruction of the setting, which is within the information on a regular basis. The second is AI and superintelligence which will, actually, make us pets someday. However the third one, which we don’t speak about, has been round for 70 years, however the hazard is as nice or better than it’s ever been. Most individuals assume it’s only a Chilly Battle relic, and I’m speaking about nuclear conflict. On this podcast at present, we are going to present you why nuclear conflict remains to be an pressing and imminent difficulty that every one of us should take note of with award-winning documentarian Paul Jay about his upcoming movie, How you can Cease Nuclear Battle. You don’t need to miss this podcast, each minute of it, as a result of that is the one risk pondering persons are not eager about, however we should. So Let’s get began. Hello, I’m Dr. John Iso, and I’d prefer to welcome you to this episode of the Wayfoward Regenerative Conversations podcast, the place, as you already know, we discover points and concepts about the way forward for humanity and planet, particularly from this angle of these over 60 and the way we are able to weigh in to make a distinction for future generations, no matter age you might be, welcome.
Dr John Izzo
Now, at present’s subject is well timed, it’s essential, and it’s pressing, though most of us really feel that method. Right here’s my take. If you concentrate on the issues that concern most human beings, go to a celebration of pondering individuals, eager about the longer term or the current and what worries individuals. You hear issues about AI and the economic system, and perhaps AI goes to destroy the planet and make us pets. You’ll actually hear about local weather change and the destruction of the setting. You’re prone to hear concern concerning the conflict in Gaza and the conflict in Ukraine, and maybe the rising army in China. What you most likely is not going to hear in even most pondering circles is any concern or dialog about nuclear conflict. However right here’s my perspective. On this technology, the Gen Zs and younger millennials, about 50 to 60% of them have rising and unimaginable anxiousness about local weather and what which means for his or her future and their youngsters’s future. However they could assume they’ve a nook on anxiousness concerning the future. However being a child boomer, I can inform you our anxiousness concerning the future was all about nuclear conflict. Battle. I bear in mind as a younger little one rising up in New York Metropolis, we’d do drills the place we hid beneath the desk making ready for a nuclear conflict, principally bend over and kiss your butt goodbye.
Dr John Izzo
I bear in mind within the early ’70s, after I was in highschool, Being in New York Metropolis, figuring out that we had been actually at floor zero, the epicenter, if the Russians had been to launch these nuclear weapons, we had been going to be a few of the first to go. And I bear in mind nights after I couldn’t fall asleep figuring out that in only a quick 18 to twenty minutes, my life and everybody that I really like could possibly be over. Now, as we quick forwarded by the years into the ’80s, issues began to look a bit higher. There began to be arms management and agreements to start to restrict nuclear arms and the nuclear arms race. There was change within the Soviet Union when the Berlin Wall fell, and immediately it appeared like a relic of the Chilly Battle previous. However quick ahead to this current second, and I’d argue that it’s as harmful or extra harmful than maybe it’s ever been. There’s a brand new arms race happening, each in Russia, in China, and in america, creating new and extra destabilizing weapons on a regular basis. The flashpoints are getting better and better, and we’re residing, as many individuals say in a current movie, in a home of dynamite.
Dr John Izzo
We actually are surrounded by weapons that might finish life as we all know it in a brief 30 to 90 minute window, and but we’re pretending that all the pieces is ok. And that’s what makes this dialog station at present so essential and well timed, as a result of these of us who care concerning the future should flip our consideration once more to this seeming relic of the Chilly Battle previous that may be very a lot a gift risk in actuality. And at present we’re privileged to have an award-winning Canadian movie director and producer Paul Jay, who’s now engaged on his newest mission, How you can Cease Nuclear Battle. It couldn’t be extra essential. It couldn’t be extra well timed. Yet one more attention-grabbing perspective earlier than we get began. Apparently, when Ronald Reagan first took workplace, actually on the peak of the Chilly Battle in his presidency, he was informed that he would have about six minutes, six quick minutes to determine what to do in a nuclear emergency, to which Ronald Reagan supposedly mentioned one thing like this, Nobody would be capable of make and prudent choice in six minutes about one thing that essential. Anyway, Alon, I’m going to show it over to you as we to welcome Paul Jay into our dialog this morning.
Alain Gauthier
Welcome, Paul. You might have had a assorted life.
Dr John Izzo
You as soon as had been a truck driver and labored as a railroad mechanic earlier than changing into a filmmaker.
Paul Jay
May you share a narrative or second early in your life that set you on this journey into journalism and documentary filmmaking? I can’t decide a second, however how a couple of second that pushed me in direction of doing this movie early in my life? I additionally grew up with duck and canopy. I’m born in 1951, So after I’m in public college, I’m hiding beneath my desk. All of us grew up within the ’50s with a sense of an imminent risk of nuclear conflict and surrounded by chilly conflict propaganda. Not solely did we worry nuclear conflict, we had been informed to worry a Soviet invasion of Europe. We had been informed to worry a Soviet assault on america. We had been informed that higher useless than crimson. We grew up enveloped in a tradition of intentionally created paranoia. It’s solely later in my life I begin to understand how a lot of that paranoia was a material of lies. In 1958, ’59, we’re informed there’s a bomber hole, and we’re informed the Soviet bombers are coming in masse. That turned out to be a giant lie. In reality, there was a bomber hole, nevertheless it was method, method on the aspect of the US.
Paul Jay
The Soviet aspect, barely a number of bombers, nuclear bombers. We had been informed there was a defensive protect defending America, Anyway, I don’t know. Canada was a part of it. I don’t know the way protected Canada was. It’s known as the SAGE Radar System, which I realized later was a complete boondoggle. It by no means labored, partly as a result of they by no means solved the issue of radar jamming. However get this, the SAGE Radar System. That is beginning within the late ’50s into the early ’60s, which nearly nobody’s ever heard of. I’m guessing none of you guys have ever heard of it. The SAGE Radar System price 3 times the Manhattan Venture. It was over. It was near 1. 5 % of the GDP of america, and nobody’s ever heard of the rattling factor. Not solely that, it by no means labored. And there’s research that had been commissioned by Mactamara, the place it says proper clearly within the research, the factor by no means labored. It’s the start of the anti-ballistic missile system, boondoggles. And within the movie, we’re going to inform this entire story, as a result of the place are we now? The Golden Dome, the most recent of the Bündogels. Anyway, I grew up within the early ’60s, the Cuban Missile Disaster, the assassination of Kennedy.
Paul Jay
So by the point I’m about 14, 15, I determine I’m performed with college as a result of I received’t stay until 20. And so I give up college in grade 10, and I don’t return. And it’s Somewhat bit like Ellsberg’s story in some methods, when he went to work at RAN Company, he was provided a pension. He’s about 30 years outdated when he goes to RAN, 29. He simply laughs and refuses the pension plan. There’s no method I’ll be round to gather the pension. So at any fee, I grew up believing, and rightly so to a big extent, that that nuclear conflict might occur at any time. Now, as you talked about in your wonderful introduction, John, that all of us began saying, Nicely, perhaps it ain’t going to occur. And definitely by the ’90s, it appeared the Chilly Battle was over and the risk was diminished. And now I, too, was way more involved about local weather and different kinds of standard conflict and financial inequality and so forth. Then I learn Ellsberg’s ebook, Doomsday Machine: Confessions of a Nuclear Battle Planner. And I learn that about 2018. Then I did an extended sequence of interviews with Dan. Then I noticed that ebook and what Dan needed to say, in some methods, was perhaps an important factor I’d ever learn, given what was at stake.
Paul Jay
So I talked to Dan and determined to make the movie. The in need of the story is Dan was a really dedicated chilly warrior. He grew up on this tradition of this intentionally constructed anticipated exaggeration of the Soviet risk. And I can speak a bit extra about it, however what it truly is about, and we’re going to get into this within the movie, it’s a tradition that has started lengthy earlier than there even was a Soviet Union.
Dr John Izzo
So Paul, to begin with, thanks for that. I actually need to get into your relationship with Daniel Ellsberg. And for these of you who don’t bear in mind, Daniel was an insider within the US authorities, within the army advanced within the CIA. After which he’s the one well-known for leaking the Pentagon papers concerning the lies throughout the Vietnam Battle, after which actually grew to become an unimaginable activist, as you mentioned, together with his ebook about doomsday, however an unimaginable activist properly into his ’80s and early ’90s round nuclear conflict. However let’s begin, Paul, on the highest degree. So many individuals, as you mentioned, consider it as this Chilly Battle relic. Inform us why The primary headline, then I need to get into your expertise with Daniel, why we should be involved about this now. Why is it as essential or perhaps much more harmful than it’s ever… I feel it’s truly extra harmful than it’s ever been. And I ponder what your ideas are. What’s the headline? Give individuals why, of us, this isn’t one thing of the previous.
Paul Jay
Nicely, the primary level is the Chilly Battle by no means ended. So those that speak about it’s probably the most harmful time for the reason that finish of the Chilly Battle. The Chilly Battle didn’t finish as a result of the Chilly Battle was by no means about Soviet army growth. That was the excuse. However there was no Soviet army growth, and that’s been clearly documented now. As soon as the Yalta Settlement was performed, sure, there was interventions in Czechoslovakia. There was an intervention by the Soviet Hungary. The one actual army journey you might say the Soviet Union did exterior of the Yalta Settlement was the invasion of or intervention in Afghanistan. And that was clearly a defensive posture. I imply, Afghanistan was on their border, and the People, Brzezinski, beloved to brag about how they sucked the Soviet Union into that by arming the jihadists with anti-helicopter missiles and so forth. However But it surely was very well-known. And after I say very well-known, I imply by these those that had entry to the intelligence. The CIA was producing report each single yr, ’46, ’47, ’48, all by the late ’40s, into the ’50s and the headline of the stories, and now we have these stories, and we’ll present them within the movie.
Paul Jay
The title of the stories had been, Is the Soviet Union a risk, a army risk, to Europe and the america? And yr after yr, the conclusion of the CIA was, no, there’s no army risk. They’re in a defensive posture. There’s even a report that’s titled, Now that the Soviet Union has a nuclear weapon, is it a army risk? And the conclusion was, no, they’ve nuclear weapons in a defensive posture as a result of now we have nuclear weapons. It’s not an offensive risk. Even George Kennen, who was a really senior American diplomat, had this well-known cable he despatched, creator by Mr. X, nevertheless it seems it was George Kennen. He mentioned, and so did many others in very senior ranges of the Truman administration. This can be a political ideological risk to the American international system. Possibly not actual phrases, however shut. It’s not a army risk. And that’s the The actual gist of the Chilly Battle was that, and this planning begins, we’re going to doc, the planning begins in 1939, 1940, working led by the Council on International Relations, funded by the Rockefellers. The planning for this begins throughout the conflict, and it’s primarily what Henry Luce, the man who revealed Time, Life journal, it’s the American Century.
Paul Jay
And the American Century was very easy. It was a plan that your complete non-Soviet world have to be a part of an American-led international capitalism. And the elemental mission of US overseas coverage is to forestall international locations leaving the American sphere and becoming a member of a socialist sphere. And it wasn’t about Soviet army expansionism. The reality is, the actual factor they had been afraid of had been nationwide liberation actions in Asia, Africa, and Latin America, and that they might grow to be socialist. They tried to decorate this up and body it as Soviet army expansionism. However the place does the US go to conflict first in a significant method? Korea. They knew the Soviets weren’t going to intervene in Korea. Cia was saying it. They knew there was no Chinese language intervention deliberate later that comes. However did the Chinese language intervene as a result of the People did intervene. The place’s the subsequent massive conflict? Vietnam. Had nothing to do with Soviet army expansionism. They knew very properly, actually, that the Vietnamese Nationwide Liberation Motion had began proper after the conflict, when the French tried to recolonize Vietnam. It was an unbiased, indigenous, you might say, Nationwide Liberation Motion. It had common assist. And in an American paperwork, and Dan knew this properly from the Pentagon papers, if there had been an election, it was well-known, Ho-Chimmin would have received the election.
Paul Jay
It had common assist. So the intervention in Vietnam had nothing to do with Soviet army expansionism. It needed to do with defending the American sphere. And it’s very attention-grabbing. We’re finding out these historical past, the Council on International Relations now. They really did a examine on might america go it alone? That means, might you’ve a world the place Britain, United States, South America primarily create a block and neglect about the remainder of the world? And the reply was not with out Indochina. That the American financial prosperity was the time period they used, couldn’t survive with out the rubber, the tin, three quarters of the world’s rice manufacturing. You wanted Indochina as a part of a geopolitical positioning as a way to have a profitable American international system. So the invasion of Vietnam, once more, had nothing to do with Soviet expansionism, nevertheless it did should do with stopping nationwide liberation actions, detaching from the American sphere and trending, gravitating in direction of socialism. In order that has not ended. That’s nonetheless the system, the outlook. That’s nonetheless the world imaginative and prescient we belong in. Nato was not created to guard Europe from a Soviet invasion. Nato was created to ensnare Europe within the American sphere, to make it possible for Europe, each economically and by way of its army infrastructure, was inside the American sphere.
Paul Jay
But it surely was a plan that realized from the top of World Battle I. As an alternative of destroying and in search of compensation from the defeated Germany and Japan, they allowed these international locations to rebuild in a method that they stayed inside the American sphere. So that they realized from World Battle I. And this was truly what the entire function of the Council on International Relations was throughout this planning of World Battle II. The fundamental level is the DNA of the system is in search of monopoly, in search of monopoly, even simply Company versus Company. However that in search of a monopoly exists as a elementary financial driver globally. And for those who’re not a rustic that’s large enough to be the hegemon, you leap on the hegemon prepare like Canada. Canada didn’t get the playing cards dealt to grow to be the hegemon. So Canada rides the US gravy, plundering the world outdated gravy prepare. And we’re a big arms producer in Canada. I feel we’re quantity 9 or 10 on the planet. So a variety of arms, together with elements of the nuclear. So the elemental factor now could be the competition with China Primary, the system was at all times meant that there ought to by no means be a peer competitor. They use this time period within the final even 20 years known as the all full spectrum dominance.
Paul Jay
Nicely, you’ll be able to’t have full spectrum dominance when you haven’t only a pure competitor, a competitor that’s profitable the business rivalry. Quantity two, you’ll be able to’t permit Russia into Europe in a full method. It has an excessive amount of potential to be too massive, too highly effective. And it threaten NATO, not as a result of it’s a army risk, however Russia has the potential, and positively within the historical past, the 1800s, 1900s, even return within the 1700s. I imply, Russia has the potential to be a heavyweight participant. And picture if Russia, after the ’90s had been integrated into Europe. And picture if there had been a Russian-German-French alliance, properly, US would have primarily misplaced its dominant place in Europe. That helped gas the event of a really poisonous regime, which is what exists now in Russia. The identical method… I’m leaping to issues. I’m assuming your viewers know a variety of what I’m saying. The best way the Versailles Treaty helped gas the rise of fascism in Germany, this excluding of Russia from fashionable Europe after the autumn of the Soviet Union helped gas a really poisonous, I don’t know if the phrase fascist is sort of proper, nevertheless it’s fairly shut. They use authoritarian, however the poisonous regime that exists in Russia now.
Paul Jay
So the Chilly Battle by no means ended. And due to two fracture factors which are so tense, the poisonous regime, which the West helped create, and the invasion of Ukraine, and now the probabilities that it might result in different fractures, and who is aware of what’s going to occur in Georgia. However principally it’s China. And the competition within the South China Sea, the combat over Taiwan, the need of the American military-industrial advanced and nuclear advanced to have an existential enemy, primary. In any other case, how do you justify spending a lot cash, which has actually been one of many cores of the entire thing. Quantity two, there’s a actual perception system within the those that run this stuff. What I imply this stuff, not who run the state, who run the Pentagon, who run corporations like Palantier, Karp or Peter Thiel, who’s one of many founders of Palantier. He’s an investor in Andrew. They really consider their very own bullshit. I consider they consider it the identical method Hitler believed his metaphysics. And this perception system is deeply embedded in American tradition as a result of it goes proper again to slave homeowners who believed that the protection of personal property equalled freedom. So if you will get your head round, defending slavery defends freedom.
Paul Jay
In the event you develop up in that milieu, that tradition, that white supremacy, which is the core of slave plantation homeowners tradition. Whenever you get your head round, in some way that equals Christianity. Someway that represents Jesus. Someway that represents freedom. Bear in mind, the founders of America and the American Revolution had been slave homeowners. But they’re speaking all males are equal. As soon as you will get your head round this bizarre dualism, compartmentalism, that’s the core of American elite tradition. So that you get Dick Cheney’s funerals happening as we communicate. How does somebody like that purely consider, simply say any bullshit to generate profits, like Cheney’s connection to Halliburton or the striving to seize Iraqi oil. I feel they really consider that that’s justifiable in the identical method slave homeowners thought slavery was justifiable as a result of they characterize civilization. They They characterize actually what it’s they consider in social Darwinism. They actually consider that survival of the fittest is what drives human progress. And if we’re earning profits alongside the way in which, that’s simply a part of how the system works. It’s the identical method those that ran tobacco corporations might justify, though they’re hiding tobacco research, they let their youngsters smoke tobacco executives as a result of it bought them forward within the tobacco corporations.
Paul Jay
So it’s an internalized view of the world which you can perceive while you perceive how the slave system works, as a result of it’s a continuation of that mentality.
Dr John Izzo
So Paul, one of many issues that as I listened to you, which I feel essential for individuals within the West to acknowledge, is that in some ways the West drove the arms rights for all types of causes that you simply’ve actually are articulated. And as you mentioned, we might get into a complete dialog about the way in which we had been with Russia put up the autumn of the Berlin Wall that helped, in a method, arrange the Putin regime, et cetera. However I don’t need to go into that. However I feel you’ve performed an awesome job of exhibiting the arc of how we bought to this second. And but in the mean time that we’re at now, now we have now North Korea, actually the primary rogue state within the nuclear. If you concentrate on it, they’re actually the primary unstable state.
Paul Jay
Can I disagree with you? First rogue state is america.
Dr John Izzo
I perceive what you’re doing, however by rogue, what I imply is an unpredictable state. One of many causes the Chilly Battle was in a position to One purpose we didn’t blow ourselves up throughout the Chilly Battle, in my opinion, is we had two comparatively secure states that had this equilibrium. And I don’t need to get an excessive amount of into North Korea, however which means now you’ve performed an awesome job of exhibiting traditionally how we bought right here. However now now we have as many nuclear weapons as we’ve ever had. The system is changing into extra superior than they’ve ever been, extra gamers than they’ve ever been. And so that you’ve performed an awesome job setting as much as this second that we’ve come to. And I suppose one of many questions then turns into, how will we cease nuclear conflict on this second? I ponder if I can bracket that for the second and speak about Daniel Ellsberg. Give it a bit teaser for viewers as a result of I clearly need to get into how will we cease nuclear conflict now. However can we speak a bit bit about your expertise with Ellsberg? I’m going to show it over to Alon, however I need to come again to that query.
Dr John Izzo
I hope you’re having fun with this dialog we’re having with Paul Jay about the best way to cease nuclear conflict as a lot as we’re. There’s so many good issues but to come back, so please don’t go away. However I wished to take a second and thanks for being part of our group and to encourage you to subscribe on no matter channel you’re watching or listening to this podcast on. To start with, for those who subscribe, it implies that you’re going to get notified each time a brand new podcast comes out and actually be despatched to our outdated library as properly. Second, it helps us to develop this group and unfold these nice concepts.
Paul Jay
And please make a remark, as a result of each time you make a remark, it engages others to be within the dialog, which is absolutely what this podcast is all about.
Dr John Izzo
Yet one more factor earlier than we get again to our dialog with Paul Jay. In simply a short while now, on December second, at 08: 00 AM Pacific Time, we’re having a stay podcast, our first stay podcast on Local weather Crossroads: Why Haven’t We Made Extra Progress and How Can We Make It Now? So please within the present notes, you’ll discover a hyperlink to enroll in that December second stay podcast. It’s our first one, and we’d like to have you ever be part of it. Now, let’s get again to this essential dialog. You mentioned that your upcoming movie, How you can Cease a Nuclear Battle, is impressed, a minimum of partly by Daniel Eswell’s ebook, The Doomsday Machine.
Paul Jay
So what’s from Ellsberg pondering most formed your method? And what did you study in your conversations with him? Nicely, to begin with, his arc as a real believer within the Chilly Battle, to over years of discovering how what he believed to be true turned out to be lies. Even throughout the Pentagon papers, even when he’s exposing the lies of the Vietnam Battle, he hasn’t totally realized simply what an entire cloth of BS he nonetheless believed, even after the trial. When individuals don’t know the story. He was charged with, I suppose, espionage or leaking secret paperwork. And the trial will get kicked due to the Watergate plumbers broke into his psychiatrist workplace. So it was prosecutorial misconduct, they usually threw the case out. Then he begins studying. And he begins studying individuals like Chomsky and Howard Zinn. He simply reads and reads and reads. And the sunshine bulb goes off for him. This isn’t simply unhealthy coverage. It’s not only a mistake. It’s systemic. It’s within the DNA of the way in which the system works, this army expansionism. So his arc is fascinating as a result of it retains making me do not forget that individuals of excellent intent actually consider believed within the Chilly Battle, they usually didn’t have entry to the intelligence.
Paul Jay
They didn’t perceive the historic improvement. And that provides me some hope that if Ellsberg can come to appreciate this stuff, properly, perhaps there’s different individuals inside these establishments. And also you see like an Edward Snowden sort. You see these Larry Wilkerson’s like that. I imply, Larry was totally believing within the… In reality, Larry, I suppose individuals know he was Colin Powell’s Chief of Workers, he volunteered to go to Vietnam as a result of he thought he was combating towards the Communist scourge. And later in life, he denounced the Iraq conflict, and he begins to appreciate he believed in a bunch of bullshit. Now, this It wasn’t to say the Soviet Union wasn’t a police state. Let me get to this a bit. It doesn’t fairly instantly reply your Ellsberg query, nevertheless it doesn’t get talked about sufficient. You’ll be able to’t equate communism with Stalinism. It’s one type of socialism. There’s many various types, simply as there are numerous types of capitalism. You’ll be able to’t equate capitalism with Hitler, or Pinochet, or Mussolini, These are significantly malignant types of capitalism, and Stalinism grew to become a very malignant type of socialism. And I received’t get within the the explanation why now. However individuals Individuals say, and I do know this isn’t your query, however I’m going to reply it anyway.
Paul Jay
Individuals say, properly, the place has there been a extra optimistic mannequin of socialism? The place is socialism not grow to be a police state? And it’s a quite simple reply. Nowhere. Why? As a result of the People stored killing anyone that attempted it. In Chile, you’ve a popularly elected President, Allende, who tries to develop a democratic democratic type of socialism, and the US, aligned with Chilean elites, stage a coup and kill the man. In Indonesia, you had a Communist Get together that participated in elections, had a democratic view of the best way to develop energy. And the US and the Indonesian elites had been so terrified that they might win the election. They killed 1,000,000 Communist and left wingers. 1,000,000. Blood was actually flowing within the streets. Lumumba in Africa, a Nationalist, however a Socialist. On no account a sympathizer of something like Stalinism. They assassinated Lumumba. Even in Europe. After the conflict, in 1948, I suppose it’s, the Italian Communist Get together, which was collaborating within the elections, rejected Stalinism. I imply, they nonetheless had formal ties, however the mannequin of socialism they wished to develop in Italy had nothing to do with what was happening within the Soviet Union. The People put in hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of {dollars} to defeat the communists within the election and created a secret group known as P2.
Paul Jay
I don’t know for those who guys have heard of this factor known as Gladio. It’s this entire secret plan in lots of European international locations beneath the auspices of NATO to intervene in any election in any nation the place they thought the Socialists/Communists may come to energy. And Berlusconi is the product of P2, and P2 labored with the Mafia. That is all on Wikipedia. These items may be very accessible. Simply search for Gladio, search for P2. The purpose is we haven’t seen this mannequin of a democratic type of socialism. And I’m not simply speaking socialism like free busses. And I’m not critiquing Mandani in New York. There’s solely a lot you are able to do beneath these conditions. However there have been makes an attempt to develop democratic fashions, they usually had been crushed. So I’ll cease there. If you wish to know extra about that, I’ll go on. Anyway, Dan began to appreciate all this. And in order that taught me one thing concerning the significance of don’t write individuals off simply because they consider the Chilly Battle mythology. I used to be going to do a movie about 9/11, and I used to be going to take a gaggle of 9/11 households to Afghanistan and Pakistan, and I’m simply going to comply with them round and get them to ask individuals Why do you hate us?
Paul Jay
Simply that. And let these households hear the reply. Anyway, so one of many guys I used to be going to take was a hearth chief, whose son was a fireman, killed within the towers. He was a hearth chief at 9/11 as properly. He fashioned one thing after 9/11 known as Democrats for Bush as a result of he thought you bought to rally round your president. Anyway, I informed him just a bit bit concerning the historical past of recent Afghanistan, the way it was the US that introduced bin Laden to Afghanistan. It was a part of the scheme of sucking the Russians into the conflict and so forth. He didn’t know any of it. He didn’t know a single factor concerning the precise historical past, what led to the loss of life of his son. And his jaw dropped. So a part of coping with the hazard of nuclear conflict at present, that is why I’m happening about these things, is you need to dispel the mythology of the Chilly Battle as a result of everybody seems to be at it by that prism. So after we hear the Chinese language are coming to get us, the Chinese language need to management the world. The Chinese language are going to have a army that may dominate the world.
Paul Jay
Individuals are likely to consider it as a result of we’ve been informed about this exterior, exaggerated risk from the time we’re born. So for those who get the historical past of the risk has been pushed primarily by financial elements. There’s a time period known as army Keynesianism. After World Battle II, it is a crucial level we’re going to make within the movie. The New Deal didn’t clear up the issue of the Nice Despair. It mitigated the results for a short while, however that degree of presidency spending wasn’t practically sufficient. So what truly did, World Battle II did, due to the huge authorities spending. That’s what truly plugged the opening, if you need, of the financial disaster. So when the conflict is coming to an finish, even throughout the conflict, after they see the way it’s going to finish, there’s a giant choice to be made. How are you going to plug that gap that also exists? You want authorities spending. Is it going to be again to the New deal, however at a a lot increased degree, which is what Vice President Henry Wallace wished. And if you already know the Wallace story, Roosevelt’s vice President, they dumped Wallace in ’44, I suppose it’s, as a result of he needs a New deal on steroids.
Paul Jay
Or do you go to army expansionism and use the military-industrial advanced as a method to stimulate the economic system? And naturally, we all know what they selected, and we are able to go into why they selected that versus the New Deal. But it surely’s primarily the New Deal gave the employees leverage as a result of they didn’t should worry unemployment. They didn’t should worry being determined. The place army expansionism is simply boondoggle after bloody boondogle, primarily conflict profiteering. But it surely’s additionally along with geopolitical dominance. So the chance at present is, it is a continuation, is it extra harmful? Yeah. And I take your level. They knew the Soviet aspect had been very rational. No matter was happening domestically. I interviewed Sam Nunn, and he made a extremely good level. Senator Sam Nun, he’s retired now. See, Through the Chilly Battle, there was all types of negotiations happening for varied types of arms limitations treaties. There have been treaties agreed. One of many extra essential truly was the ’72 Anti-Balistic Missile Treaty. ‘ However none made a vital level. The 2 sides had been speaking to one another. He was saying that’s virtually extra essential than the agreements as a result of they bought to know one another they usually realized they weren’t so totally different.
Paul Jay
They either side wished to keep away from nuclear conflict. Nicely, now no one’s speaking to anyone. The regime, authorities, and energy in Russia may be very poisonous, very nationalistic. I don’t know if it’s irony, however Putin represents the middle, not the appropriate. He’s pressured by the Russian proper, the Orthodox Church, even the so-called Communist Get together, virulent Nationalist forces. I’ve interviewed progressive Russians. They are saying, Putin could also be doing horrible issues, however if you need Putin to overthrow him, watch out what you want for, as a result of there’s a variety of the forces on his proper that probably will come. Anyway, the actual difficulty goes to grow to be, is and can be China, as a result of the very deeply rooted overseas coverage outlook is you’ll be able to’t have a peer competitor. Two, they’re devoted to virtually conflict with China. And even individuals like Mirresheimer, who speak about, don’t inflame the state of affairs with the Russians and His critique of NATO is, I feel, principally proper. I feel he exaggerates it. However even Mirresheimer thinks the protection of the American sphere of affect in Asia is reputable. It’s very harmful as a result of the system itself, the worldwide capitalist system managed by america, is reaching an endpoint. To start with, the local weather disaster They’re in such denial or they’ve given up.
Paul Jay
The billionaire class thinks they and their grandchildren can be okay, they usually don’t need to assume any additional. The sensible ones, no. We’re right here already. Two Levels is already baked in. We’re inside 10, 15 years, and perhaps much less, of hundreds of thousands of individuals within the South should go north. We’re inside perhaps 15 years, the place a lot of the agriculture of america and China can be worn out. However they’re in denial. They don’t need to take care of it. Battle has at all times been the reply. At any time when the system is in deep disaster, the reply has at all times been conflict. The issue now could be you’re coping with a lot nuclear weapon capability and the introduction of AI. You get a convergence of the local weather disaster, nuclear powers who don’t even speak to one another, a ramping up of American threats to China over Taiwan. Taiwan, which is the craziest state of affairs. How do you’ve a one China coverage and nonetheless assume you’ll be able to defend Taiwan? I don’t perceive. The opposite massive lesson from Ellsberg, it’s not an all or nothing proposition. It’s not nuclear weapons finish of the world or abolish nuclear weapons. There are steps that could possibly be taken to cut back the chance.
Paul Jay
That’s the large sensible lesson from Ellsberg. Primary, Eliminate ICBMs. They’re pointless. All they’re is targets. When you’ve this six minutes factor, the six minutes is barely as a result of it’s a use them or lose them with ICBMs. However the entire mythology of that’s which you can’t cease what’s coming in anyway. So that you may as properly let it hit and see if it’s actual. No one needs to say that. This current movie, Home of Dynamite. Among the issues in it are horrible. This concept {that a} missile hits Chicago, however you’ve solely bought 10 minutes to determine whether or not to launch your ICBM. I imply, one factor is, to begin with, Chicago doesn’t have any ICBM, so it’s bought completely nothing to do with it. You possibly can do away with ICBMs. You possibly can renegotiate an anti-ballistic missile treaty. You possibly can do away with sole authority. You possibly can cease absolute any speak of testing. And now Putin and Trump are each speaking about restarting testing. Our movie, as soon as we get in, We’re going to take care of a historic context so individuals can clear their minds of the paranoia, then let’s concentrate on sensible steps as a result of there are some that a minimum of scale back the dangers.
Paul Jay
However as an alternative of specializing in lowering the chance, what’s truly taking place? A brand new nuclear arms race and an AI arms race.
Dr John Izzo
Yeah. So Paul, once more, a lot performed. Thanks for sharing these additional. I need to come again to these factors in a second. However simply to place some exclamation factors, some stuff you already mentioned. One is that this mentality of there’s solely going to be one winner and one loser, and we’re not going to speak to one another. One among my mentors was John Morozo, a pal who began the East-West Institute. Within the peak of the Chilly Battle, he’s one of many few individuals who go to the Kremlin and the White Home. However your level is, they had been speaking to one another. And this entire thought, which I really feel like, in fact, I can’t stand Trump. However one factor I feel Trump has over Biden is Trump a minimum of thinks you bought to speak to individuals. He’s not the appropriate man to speak to individuals. However Biden was like, We’re not going to speak to you, proper? We now have to speak to individuals, and now we have to imagine that it’s going to be a multipolar world now. People should quit the concept American would be the solely hegemon on the planet till we give that up.
Dr John Izzo
Economically, in fact, it’s a race. We need to win the financial race, so to talk. However now we have to acknowledge it’s not going to be a one nation world anymore. And till we give that up. And that’s what you mentioned. That’s what’s pushed a lot of this. We have to speak to one another. And you then’re entering into now the… Even in Ellsberg’s authentic ebook, The Doomsday Machine, he talked about how fragile the methods had been. And now AI, as you mentioned, now part of that. How a lot of the choice making, if the President was to, for instance, grow to be incapacitated, is now delineated right down to others, so others might determine to launch nuclear weapons. And so, as you mentioned, you gave 4 actually essential issues, however all of them start speaking to one another once more. And naturally, Ukraine hasn’t helped that. The state of affairs in Ukraine has not helped that in any respect. And there’s all types of historic the explanation why that got here to be. However that has actually sophisticated issues hasn’t it? As a result of it’s made relationships with, particularly, although I agree with you, within the massive China might be the larger difficulty in the long run.
Dr John Izzo
But in addition simply, as you mentioned, nonetheless having this home of dynamite round us. And it’s a powder ready for a spark.
Paul Jay
I need to return to one thing you mentioned proper on the very starting. Why are we speaking about this? Why is the problem of nuclear weapons and American nuclear coverage primarily taboo? Within the final elections, the one person who even talked about nuclear weapons, presidential elections, was Trump, and solely to advertise his Golden Dome boondoggle. I name it the Golden Con. My different line is, it’s not It’s not concerning the dome, it’s concerning the gold. However aside from that, no one even talks about it. Within the media, you don’t hear a phrase about nuclear weapons. So why is that? As a result of the entire nuclear doctrine, the nuclear construction, the nuclear weapons, the entire thing relies on such mythology, lies, nonsense. Anybody that appears at it, how are you risking the Apocalypse? There’s no method it’s not going to explode sometime. Anybody that research this is aware of and says, Everyone I’ve talked to, and I’ve talked to now, perhaps 200 main specialists. All of them assume it’s primarily inevitable. Sometime there’s going to be a mistake, a miscalculation. I truly don’t assume it’s very probably there’s going to be a deliberate nuclear conflict. I don’t assume the North Koreans are insane.
Paul Jay
It could be a weird nutty system. Not perhaps, it’s, from what I can see. I haven’t been there. However they’re not suicidal. The actual hazard proper now, and it’s excessive, is as pressure will increase over Taiwan, over the Philippines, that one thing occurs, a bunch of area rubbish knocks out some strategic satellites. Ai misinterprets it as the start of a primary strike. I’ve raised this with varied specialists who all assume it is a believable state of affairs. This use them or lose them factor. It’s so nonsensical As a result of there’s just one method to know if an assault is actual, for those who see one thing coming in, is you bought to let it hit. In the event you let it hit, primary, you at all times have subs. So it’s not such as you’re going to lose your second strike functionality. Quantity two, you’ll be able to’t cease it anyway. It’s going to hit. It’s not like your alternative, Oh, allow them to hit. It’s going to hit. There’s no such factor as stopping an incoming ICBM assault. They speak about it now with Golden Dome, you’re going to have the ability to… Possibly you couldn’t cease a bullet with a bullet, however now that you’ve got AI, that was the terminology, a missile bringing down an ICBM, it’s like hitting a bullet with a bullet.
Paul Jay
For the sake of argument, let’s say AI might hit a bullet with a bullet, and even but, there’s no proof of that. However let’s say AI can not distinguish between a bullet and a bullshit. No missile is available in simply as a missile. It is available in surrounded by a whole lot of decays. There’s no AI on the planet that’s going to have the ability to inform the distinction between a missile. So So there isn’t a such factor like he needs to check the Golden Dome to the Israeli Iron Protect. These should not ICBMs which are coming in. They’re simply ballistic missiles. Icbms are available at 1000’s of miles per hour quicker. I imply, it’s simply nonsense. So the one factor is to be sincere about there isn’t a protection. Quantity two, why the hell is anybody launching a primary strike anyway? Why would they? Russia, China? They know the US has subs, primary. Quantity two, why would China that owns a trillion or extra of US {dollars}, they’re going to need to take out the American economic system? It’s nonsense. It’s ridiculousness. So that they don’t speak about nuclear weapons as a result of the entire thing is utter BS, and at all times has been utter BS.
Paul Jay
Even the bombing of Hiroshima, Nagasaki was bullshit. It didn’t finish the conflict. It’s clearly documented now.
Dr John Izzo
One of many factors that you simply trace at right here, Paul, is it’s actually a miracle it hasn’t occurred, given how unstable it’s. And I noticed in one among your interviews, the interviewer talked about that the previous head of the strategic command within the US had mentioned, Why hasn’t there been a nuclear conflict? He mentioned, The unimaginable good sense of some individuals. He mentioned, Blind luck and divine intervention. And to the This suicidal level, I used to be talking on the School of Charleston simply after the Ukraine conflict began, and one of many individuals on this system with me was the lady who had negotiated the final strategic arms treaty for NATO with the Russians. And I requested her on the aspect, I mentioned, Are you apprehensive that Putin goes to go nuclear? And he or she mentioned, Nicely, it’s a hazard, in fact, she mentioned, due to miscalculation. She mentioned, However no, as a result of I don’t assume he’s suicidal. However you already know what I assumed, Paul? That’s a reasonably skinny thread that we’re hanging by to imagine that we’d someday have a pacesetter who’s suicidal. So even that isn’t a assure. So long as now we have the home of Dynamite going, we are able to’t depend on that someday.
Dr John Izzo
There is likely to be a pacesetter with them who’s suicidal.
Paul Jay
We are saying Nixon in his final days was suicidal deep, deep in despair and alcohol. And his spouse and the senior workers round him needed to push him out of energy. And Dan Ellsberg actually believed that Nixon deliberate to make use of nuclear weapons in Vietnam. Yeah, that’s an actual hazard. However the greater hazard, they usually don’t need to speak about it, is you can not belief the system of sensors and satellites and now AI. And there’s a lot potential for miscalculation when the underlying reality is there truly is not any risk. It’s simply ridiculous. No main energy goes to start out a nuclear conflict intentionally. So if that’s true, do away with this bullshit deterrence that simply justifies an infinite spending on arms, which is what it’s actually about. And never solely in america, there’s a military-industrial advanced in Russia, there’s one in China, however it’s principally pushed by the American aspect. So let me leap to a different endpoint right here. What can we do? To start with, begin speaking about it to all people you already know. Ask individuals, Do you concentrate on this? Have you learnt there is likely to be some concrete issues that could possibly be performed to cut back the chance?
Paul Jay
As a result of no one actually talks about that in any respect. In Congress, there’s a bit handful of members of the Senate and the Home who truly concentrate on these things. However a lot A lot greater than them is one thing known as the ICBM Caucus, that characterize the states which have ICBMs, and combat each try and do away with ICBMs. Sam Nunn says, Eliminate ICBM. Former SACDF Perry says, Eliminate ICBMs. An entire whack of senior army political leaders say, do away with ICBMs, as a result of proper now that’s what results in launch on warning. And so they do nothing. Subs can do no matter ICBMs do. You Don’t lose your deterrence. So it’s a really concrete step. So when the movie comes out, which can be within the early fall of 2027, as a result of we’re going to movie the midterm elections, and we’re going to go ask these sorts of inquiries to individuals which are voting, bought election rallies, we’re going to nook candidates and ask, Why aren’t you speaking about these things? We bought to interrupt the taboo on not speaking concerning the nuclear danger. I ask a man, Mark Bly, I don’t know for those who heard him, an awesome political economist.
Paul Jay
He advises massive companies and all that. And I mentioned, why aren’t the elites extra freaked out? Why isn’t Wall Road freaked out? And so they bloody properly personal all these corporations making nuclear weapons. They may cease it in a single day. Why aren’t they freaked out? He mentioned, The issue with nuclear conflict and nuclear danger is you’ll be able to’t hedge towards it. That means it’s an all or nothing proposition. It’s a nuclear conflict, and we’re all worn out, however there’s no or. So for those who can’t hedge the chance, it’s higher to disregard it, be in denial. So we’re permitting the elites The billionaire class who’re in an orgy of revenue making. There’s been nothing prefer it within the historical past of humanity. A lot focus of wealth and energy. They’d fairly be in denial, stay on their yachts and have their ladies and no matter their factor is. And so they’re main us over the cliff. So now we have to determine to not allow them to determine the destiny of humanity. And the beginning of it’s, let’s bloody a minimum of speak about these things. Don’t vote for anyone who doesn’t have this as a part of their marketing campaign. And from that perspective, Paul, for those who might communicate on to odd residents who really feel powerless within the face of such an enormous difficulty, nuclear conflict, what can they really do this issues now?
Paul Jay
Nicely, two issues. Within the elections, maintain elevating this difficulty. Say, I’m not voting for you until you’ve an actual plan the best way to scale back the chance of nuclear conflict. And I don’t care what social gathering you might be. In the event you don’t have that plan, a minimum of drive these, go to all candidates conferences, go to election rallies, anyplace you’ll be able to. In the event you’re at a college or a church or a union, Get them to take a place on this. Movie comes out. We hope the movie turns into a instrument for individuals to study and educate themselves about these points, promote the movie. Make it private as a result of it’s private as a result of It’s you and your youngsters. That is an important factor to get. It’s not essentially all or nothing. Yeah, nuclear conflict wipes us all out. There’s no query. Any BS that can get well in a yr is simply nonsense. However we are able to scale back It’s the chance of error and miscalculation, which is the larger hazard proper now. So we bought to place it in your agenda. You’re at dinner with anyone. You already know what I heard? Everyone wherever you might be in society, most individuals belong to one thing, even it’s a Rotary Membership, the Legion.
Paul Jay
And it doesn’t matter. It’s one among these uncommon points that transcends regular political divisions. No one needs a nuclear conflict. It doesn’t matter. I’d guess 90 % of those that vote for Trump don’t desire a nuclear conflict. I don’t assume Trump needs a nuclear conflict. However the issue with Trump is, one, there’s a lot cash to be made out of virtually conflict. And two, the Golden Dome is the most important boondoggle you’ll be able to think about, and he’s surrounded by crazies and by these the crazies, I imply like Peter Thiel and Alex Karp and others in Silicon Valley who’re primarily techno-fascists, techno-Christian, spiritual fascists, who’re creating the identical metaphysical view of the world that surrounded Hitler and Mussolini. And perhaps Hitler is much more an instance. And other people like Peter Thiel truly quote Nazis in his personal writings. I suppose we are able to speak about one other So it’s a very harmful second, however don’t get paralyzed by it.
Dr John Izzo
Essential factors there, Paul, and we are able to’t wait to see the movie. I imply, it’s so well timed and so essential, as I mentioned within the opening, as a result of we’re not speaking about it, as a result of we’re pretending it’s not happening. And also you’re proper. One purpose is as a result of you’ll be able to’t hedge. There’s an awesome story, truly, throughout the Cuban Missile Disaster. True story, a couple of younger stockbroker who was out promoting all the pieces within the peak of the Cuban Missile Disaster. His boss mentioned, What the hell are you doing? He mentioned, I’m promoting all the pieces? There’s a rumor that the missiles are on the way in which. He mentioned, No, purchase all the pieces. He mentioned, As a result of if the missiles are on the way in which, it doesn’t matter. But when the missiles don’t come, all the pieces’s going to go up. However that denial is a part of the issue, isn’t it? That it’s so massive, it’s so scary. It’s such an finish of the world. We all know regardless of wealthy you might be, you’ll be able to’t cover from That doesn’t make it much less essential. It perhaps makes it extra essential for movies like yours as a result of that’s why we’re not speaking about it, as a result of it’s so massive and we really feel so powerless.
Dr John Izzo
And we really feel, Oh, it will probably’t presumably occur as a result of It could’t be that silly, proper? However as you mentioned, the actual hazard is miscalculation is extra probably if anyone decides to go suicidal, although we all know that’s doable, however we all know that’s the least probably. Let me simply say it once more.
Paul Jay
Eliminate ICBM, no golden daybreak, No new testing. Even it’s simply beginning simply these three issues, even. Tremendously scale back the chance of nuclear conflict.
Dr John Izzo
And all of it begins, and I feel you made an awesome level, Paul. Sadly, time touches barely. We’re going to have to finish now. Is that it begins with us as residents should ask these questions. We’ve bought to place it on the agenda. Politicians, what’s the primary driver of all politicians, apart from a number of with deep values, to win the subsequent election? If the residents don’t care about it, they’re most likely not going to speak about it, apart from, once more, there are points. Clearly, there are individuals of nice character in politics, too. However the actuality is that they reply to us. So we’ve bought to get this on the agenda. And thanks for taking over this mission and in your life’s work. We actually recognize the time you’ve given us at present.
Paul Jay
Thanks. And I’ll simply add not solely elections, however be able to hit the streets, too.
Dr John Izzo
Yeah, undoubtedly. We’re going to should.
Paul Jay
This wants mass protests. We now have to converge the local weather and the nuclear points who’s in actually hit the streets and be very vigilant on the poll field.
Dr John Izzo
Wonderful. Alon, I’ll provide you with an opportunity to only say a last phrase, after which I’ll shut this up. It was a last phrase within the body of the query for me, too, after spending a lot time immersed on this existential risk. How do you personally keep grounded and hopeful?
Paul Jay
That’s humorous. I requested Ellsberg that as a result of he smiles on a regular basis. I don’t smile anyplace like he does. He would say, he would speak concerning the finish the world after which escape in a giant smile. However I outline myself as a medical optimist. Each rational bone in my physique would lead me to being fairly pessimistic. However humanity has overcome fairly horrible issues previously. And what’s the choice? I’m not going to stay a lifetime of being depressed and succumbing to the paranoia and the worry. It’s a greater life to combat. It’s a greater life to combat for humanity. And I’ll simply finish with one factor. The opposite factor individuals want, I feel, quit. Surrender our American identification, Canadian identification. Begin to detach from all this nationwide identification, as a result of what we’re, objectively, are people. That needs to be our identification. We’re people. And there aren’t going to be many people if we don’t step up.
Dr John Izzo
Nicely, thanks, Paul. Nice, nice method to finish. So to shut us out, Leonin Brejnev, the previous head of the Soviet Union, as soon as mentioned about nuclear conflict. He mentioned, There are not any winners in nuclear conflict. The residing would envy the useless. Nearly all of the individuals who’ve had their fingers on these weapons have realized that in a single kind or one other. I am going again to my very own childhood, and also you share that, Paul. I all of us do on this podcast at present, of that worry I felt as a teen simply being in New York Metropolis and figuring out that we had been focused, these ICBMs might come at any second. And we are able to’t be paralyzed by that worry, however we are able to’t cover from it both. Simply because the reality is tough, simply because the reality is overwhelming, doesn’t imply we are able to run away from it. So thanks for shining a lightweight on this. We hope we on this podcast have proven a lightweight on this factor that continues to be an existential risk to all of us and actually to all life on Earth. You’re part of our group since you care concerning the future, and that’s why we’d love to listen to from you.
Dr John Izzo
In the event you love what you’ve seen at present, please share it. In the event you’d prefer to see one thing totally different, please inform us and ensure to subscribe on any channel that you simply’re on and prefer it. It helps us and it helps you. In the meantime, we at all times remind you on the finish of each podcast, historical past is just not a vacation spot ready for us to reach. What we are going to we someday name historical past would be the results of what we, you and I, and every of us collectively, select to do proper now on this second, which is able to form what we someday will name historical past. We’ll see you subsequent time on the way in which ahead.
Alain Gauthier
Thanks for becoming a member of us on this episode of The Manner ahead: Regenerative Conversations podcast. I’m Jim Burke, the producer. We’d like to increase our heartfelt because of our sponsors, elders’ Motion Community and elders’ Local weather Motion for his or her unwavering assist in making this podcast doable. Their dedication to empowering elders to take motion on local weather change and social justice points is really inspiring. In the event you discovered this dialog as enlightening and motivating as we did, please subscribe to our podcast and YouTube channels. Your subscription helps us proceed bringing these important discussions to a broader viewers. Don’t neglect to share this episode together with your community, and let’s work collectively to construct a greater world for all generations. Discover us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon, and now on Instagram and YouTube Shorts. Collectively, we are able to make a distinction. We’d love to listen to your suggestions on at present’s episode and any recommendations you’ve for future company. Please ship your ideas and proposals to thewayforwardrc@gmail. Com. Your enter is invaluable in serving to us form the way forward for this podcast. To study extra about our sponsors and become involved, go to eldersactionnetwork@eldersaction. Org and eldersclimateaction@eldersclimateaction. Org. Thanks for being a part of the Wayforward group.
